Crisis Communications and the Guthrie Case

Abbie Fink: 0:00:04

I feel like I want to talk about crisis somewhat tied to what’s happening in Tucson with Nancy Guthrie, and not the issue itself, but how the police department and the sheriff’s department and the FBI are all trying to figure out who’s the spokesperson...

Adrian McIntyre: 0:00:20

I don’t know the ins and outs of it. I did see people talking about whether or not they liked the style of the sheriff or whatever, but I don’t know enough about anything to…

Abbie Fink: 0:00:29

Well, and I think that’s kind of where I’m headed with this, right? It’s like there’s this global story that is unfolding in Tucson, Arizona, a place that is not likely to have been known for this type of news coverage. It involves a local celebrity, to the extent that Savannah grew up in Tucson, so she’s a local, yet has a national platform. And I think there is so much in this story that I’m not sure anyone who would be responsible for the public information aspects of it would be completely comfortable in that role, because they probably have never had to be, in that large context, a spokesperson for a highly sensitive, nationally recognized story.

Abbie Fink: 0:01:22

So if we talk about crisis communications and what we do with our clients and we want to practice the situations, we want to be prepared. We want to understand, certainly a public information officer for, you know, a police department or in this case, the sheriff’s office, they obviously know at some point they have to have the skill in front of the camera. But again, to the level that this has generated, national, likely international news coverage is a different context than speaking to your local news media about a local story. This is a local story. It happened there, but it is involving others on a more national level. And I think the added nuance, obviously, when you’re talking about the alleged criminal activity is you can’t give away too much that you’re going to give away what is really your investigative information and the things that you’re finding that are going to lead you eventually to what we all hope is the safe return.

Abbie Fink: 0:02:19

And you can’t spill too much at certain points along the way, which is also something we talk about, right? When you are the spokesperson and the situation is highly charged and sensitive, there is a cadence by which you have to release this information, and when do you do that, and to whom do you do it, and in what order do you do it so that it doesn’t hinder whatever the circumstances are to be resolved.

Abbie Fink: 0:02:45

There are internal audiences that need to know things first, and there are other players involved in this particular case. It’s not just the Police department. There are other investigative bodies that have gotten involved. The validity of any of the information that’s coming out, how much of it is true, how much of it isn’t? They are they, whoever they are that allegedly have her, are utilizing the media to get their story out, right? They’re releasing ransom notes to news stations and things. So they’re hopeful that the story will come out from somebody other than the police department.

Abbie Fink: 0:03:22

Again, something we talk about, you have to be the one controlling the narrative. Don’t let someone else tell the story for you. So there’s a lot in there. I don’t like to use someone else’s pain to have a learning opportunity as a result of it. But there will be some things, I think that those of us that do this and those of us that coach our clients on how to respond, there will be some things that we can take away from the circumstances that and, you know, hopefully we never have to be involved with a kidnapping and whatever this is and the eventual outcome, which again, we all certainly hope is a positive one.

Abbie Fink: 0:03:59

But managing messaging, the timing of when that happens, who is the one that’s the best person to bring it forward, where is the, the timing of that? You know, who does it? You’ve got lots of different constituencies involved that need to know, when they need to know. So I think there’ll be some lessons to be learned that all of us that do crisis hope we will never have to use, but we’ll take away from it and say, well, if we, you know, faced with something that feels similar, this is what we should do.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:04:36

A big part of this is the fact that this is a very private crisis that has a very public presence. And as you rightly point out, law enforcement needs to keep some details out of public for all number of reasons, including the ability to tell the difference between fake reports or claims of responsibility and real ones. So, yeah, I mean, there’s all kinds of dimensions to this. And I am wary — like you are, clearly — of weighing in with too much of an opinion in the midst of a rapidly evolving situation, where as you say even the basic facts of the matter are not fully known and the situation could turn out any number of ways because there’s just so many possibilities. Speculating on any of them is irresponsible. But your core point here is interesting to me, which is the public information officers of the various agencies involved who are a source for journalists trying to cover the story. And they’re also unfortunately fodder for the sort of social media speculation and people weighing in with their own opinions about whether they like the sheriff or not, depending on his manner, you know, none of which is relevant or even particularly helpful.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:05:56

So I am curious to know, like, what do you think about some of the professional lessons to be learned here? Even though it’s almost too premature to say because the crisis is unfolding at the same time now is when it’s relevant to notice and observe certain things. So what’s your take on it? What do you think’s working and what do you think is maybe less ideal and lessons that need to be learned? And again, this may change. But what are your thoughts?

Abbie Fink: 0:06:21

Right. I think where I’m landing in all of this is nobody, no matter how practiced, how often that they have been in front of a microphone, will have 100% confidence in a crisis situation. Right. We can be as well trained as possible. We can have done this before, but each circumstance is different. And I think where I am with what’s happening is they may not be as polished as we might want them to be from a outside looking in.

Abbie Fink: 0:06:55

However, I think they are being genuine. I think they are really engaged in truly wanting to bring forth important and valuable and relevant information. Let’s keep in mind that the spokesperson also lives in that community. Right. I mean they, they’re there. This isn’t an outsider coming in to stand up in front of the television cameras. These are people that live there. It’s happening in their own backyard, it’s happening under their jurisdiction. Right. I mean there’s a lot of in there personally that they’re thinking about to the extent that I would not want to see a highly polished response, perfect sound bites.

Abbie Fink: 0:07:37

Because I think there’s a human element to what they’re doing that allows you to be a little bit forgiving, if you will, of the fact that they’re not as professional as one would expect them to be. They will, and I think that we’ve seen it over the handful of days have improved, if that’s the right way to say it. They’ve gotten a little bit more comfortable. They also have a little bit more information to share.

Abbie Fink: 0:08:01

There is more happening. So they may feel like they have a little bit more to, to talk about. Reporters are doing their job. They are seeking information. It is clearly a story of national interest. The media would be remiss by not reporting. There are likely lots of pieces of information that are not being shared in the interest of protecting the investigation. So what we are hearing is what we should be hearing.

Abbie Fink: 0:08:27

We need to understand that the behind the scenes things that are happening in an investigation like this is also what has to be protected in order for this to be a resolution that is hopefully again, in a positive way. And so they are doing the best that they can do with the circumstances that they have, with the information that they can share and with their own sense of dealing with it from a professional perspective. And then that it’s a local story that they have to make manage on a larger scale.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:08:59

You know, you bring up something really interesting to talk about, which is the way journalists engage with public information officers or others as they seek to report the story independently and competitively.

Abbie Fink: 0:09:14

Right.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:09:14

People from many different outlets are trying to scoop aspects of this. They are digging around the edges, they’re showing up on doorsteps of various types of folks, digging through the trash cans, not literally, but maybe literally, I don’t know, but they’re just trying to find anything. So there’s that, and I think some of that is valid truth seeking and truth telling, the core functions of a journalist.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:09:39

And then there’s a lot that just gets ridiculous, especially in the scene of the press conferences where I’m not even thinking of this specific case because I haven’t watched any of the coverage. I’ve been on the road, but I’ve seen this before, and people shouting out questions and trying to get something nailed down that’s factual. And the spokesperson, the public information officer, the fire chief, the sheriff, whoever it happens to be, whose primary job is to try to solve the case or save the life or rescue the people from the thing, whether it’s a natural disaster, crime or whatever, they have a duty, they have an obligation to keep the public informed at some level. There are aspects of public safety involved here. People rightly want to know what is happening, am I in danger?

Adrian McIntyre: 0:10:30

And the main concern I have is that the competitiveness between media outlets can lead to some bad behavior. Again, I don’t know that that’s happened in this case or not, but I do want to ask your opinion about this. There is a dynamic that plays out sometimes on camera because everyone’s running live coverage of these briefings. And some of it does not make the reporters in the room come across in the best way. They seem to be just... And I’m very sympathetic to real journalism as we have talked about many, many times, but I’m not sure that scene brings out the best in any way.

Abbie Fink: 0:11:08

Well, they’re in a really tough situation. Right. So you’ve got your local media, the Tucson based media. Then if we kind of layer that out, the Arizona Media that are also following the story. And then you have all the national media that have come in to cover it. And she, as a national news person, that dynamic is happening with her newsroom as well. And the longer that an issue continues, the more they need to keep trying to find a part of the story to keep the story alive. Right. So there are things that they are doing that are like trying to keep the story.

Abbie Fink: 0:11:41

There’s no news to report, you know, officially from the police sources. Then let’s talk to the neighbor, let’s talk to the pizza delivery person that came a month ago. And you know, I mean, there’s just ways to try to tell the story.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:11:52

It’s the same thing we. Yeah, let’s go back and recap where we are now and then say the same thing you’ve been saying every hour on the hour for the past two hours.

Abbie Fink: 0:12:00

Right. And truthfully, some of this is why I chose the PR route versus the newsroom editorial route was I just never saw myself in that role. But if we agree that the journalists job is to bring forth the information and bring forth what they believe is relevant and valuable information, they need to get it in a timely fashion. They have deadlines to make. So they are going to be those things that may or may not feel like they’re part of the story, in part because we cannot continue to say, and we have no new news to report to you if we are trying to keep the story alive. So we have to find something to report.

Abbie Fink: 0:12:34

And I don’t believe that the public information team, the spokespeople, are intentionally trying to not be cooperative. I mean, there are just things that they can’t do. And nobody wants to hear the same thing over and over again from them either. So there’s a little bit of that going on. This is not a good situation to be in. This is a tough story to tell. It has a lot of different elements to it.

Abbie Fink: 0:12:57

Not a typical news story. Probably the vast majority of the journalists that are there covering it have likely never covered a kidnapping before. They’ve got to do what it is they’ve been hired to do, that they’ve been asked to do that they have been instructed to do. This is the gatekeeper to the information. We can go find other information. There’s always going to be somebody willing to talk. There’s always going to be someone that says, I’ve got, you know, information.

Abbie Fink: 0:13:24

I knew her from high school, whatever it is, Right. They’ll be finding somebody. The reporters on site, the editors back at the station the producers of those news programming or the print. You know, we’re not seeing the print journalists quite the same way, but they are plenty of the print journalists out there. Is to sort through what we’re giving. You know, we. We talked about it on a recent episode with what was happening in Minneapolis and. And the decisions that the editor such we’re making about what ends up being the news, what do we cover, what don’t we cover?

Abbie Fink: 0:13:54

This is just another example of making those kinds of decisions. What is in the public interest, what is ethically responsible journalism, what is fodder to fill the five minutes we have allotted for this story and what will truly impact the outcome of this? I will give the benefit of the doubt that that is what is happening with the vast majority of those individuals there with the responsibility of reporting the story is that they are sorting through the need to get a three to five minute story on the air. And what do I have to talk about that’s going to be relevant to the story? And am I doing good by bringing this information forward or am I potentially putting something at risk if I go forward with it?

Adrian McIntyre: 0:14:42

Yeah, two add on thoughts to that. So the first one is we have talked before on the show about how the changing nature of audiences and consumption paired with the changing nature of the business model of news, really media in general. But let’s stick to news here has an unfortunate and unintentional but nevertheless inevitable pull towards the headlines that get clicks and the reporting that sticks. Why am I rhyming? I do not know. I think it’s time for me to go. All right, that’s enough of that, Adrian.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:15:17

So we, we tend to see this pull towards the scintillating, the scandalous, the upsetting and it needs to be visual. That’s the part where I think we miss something as the print, whether that print is in pixels or ink, that print reporting has the ability to assemble that story without having to show every piece of it with visual or audio media. Years and years and years ago, when I reported for Newsweek, back when Newsweek was a legitimate news magazine, the one thing that was just so refreshing was we had a week to put together reporting from multiple sources in different places with contributions from reporters in multiple countries, all with an overlay from an editorial team that was really making sure that this week’s magazine has the best analysis of the issue. Whatever those issues happened to be in at the time that I was there. It was all primarily about the war in Iraq.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:16:17

And we lose something when we have to capture the comments live or when we’re playing to an imagined audience and looking for spectacle. And I’m not saying that people are necessarily doing this on purpose. I mean, they’re good journalists trying hard to report the story, but almost the you can’t help but get pulled in the direction when you need to show it. And it needs to be interesting, preferably to beat out the competitor. So those two things is really what I wanted to flag. There’s something about print that allows us to integrate multiple commentary from multiple sources in the same piece, whereas the TV stuff in particular, now there’s plenty of TV packages that will do this, but I mean, the live reporting from the press room or the briefing room, rather, you can’t. It’s just going to be raw footage from that thing. The second part is the changing business model means they need to grab and hold audiences’ attention. And unfortunately that does lead toward more of this scandalous or upsetting or sensationalizing it. Sensationalized. That’s the word I keep looking for. Thank you.

Abbie Fink: 0:17:20

And here’s the thing. We are right now, we’ve been focusing really on what we would identify as traditional media outlets, your television news, newspapers, whatever it will be. But there’s a whole other set of individuals that are helping to tell the story, podcasters, true crime enthusiasts that are out there as well, with really no filter, no, you know, requirement to follow ethical journalistic guidelines. Again, I want to believe that most of them are doing their best be putting forth credible information, but there’s a lot of opportunity for opinion in that context. And look, we’re doing it a little bit ourselves here too.

Abbie Fink: 0:17:56

But there’s more out there now that are telling stories than what has ever been there before. And access to that information, how they’re getting it, whether they’re doing it in a true. I have a press credentials, I’m showing up the briefing room or I’m down the street at the coffee shop just talking my own theories. Look, to some extent I am also following the true crime advocates that are out there in the same way I’m, you know, reading the local news on what’s happening. I’m interested in what they have to say as well and probably coming up with my own theories like everyone else’s. But the bottom line for me in this situation, in terms of where we come in as professional spokespeople or trainers of others that are supposed to do that, is that situations like this that are highly charged, moving parts, lots of new information coming together on a regular basis, In a situation where you may not really be as comfortable being in front of the camera or being the spokesperson, it becomes critically important that you maintain your composure.

Abbie Fink: 0:18:58

You are as open and honest as you can be in the circumstances at that particular moment. Letting your personality come through and maybe in this case, that you aren’t the most polished of spokespeople is actually a benefit in that it seems genuine, it feels more approachable, more human. And on the day that this spokesperson will stand up there with whatever the outcome of this will be, will be the most difficult day for him.

Abbie Fink: 0:19:30

“Him” because it’s been a him up until this point. If it’s a positive and happy story, that’s going to be difficult for him to say and be composed and be able to do it and not show enthusiasm. And if it turns out to be a more unfortunate outcome and it is a sad outcome, it will be the same. And so it is not a position that any of us wish to be in. And I think that he is doing what he is doing in the circumstances and only owes us for us, as in the consumers, owes us, as in the journalists, what he is able to give us at the time that he can give us, and that when and if he can give us more, he will.

Abbie Fink: 0:20:09

And I think we need to give him the grace that it takes to be able to do this and just be grateful that it isn’t a regular occurrence that he hasn’t gotten comfortable in being able to talk about this, because that leads to a whole lot of other things that are outside of the realm of this podcast. But the fact that he isn’t our most polished spokesperson, that he is coming from a place of sincerity, is, to my belief, what is making him that credible spokesperson and making it believable and realistic under really complicated and difficult circumstances.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:20:45

Thanks for listening to this episode of Copper State of Mind. If you enjoyed the conversation, please share it with a colleague who might also find this podcast valuable. It’s easy to do. Just click the “Share” button in the app you’re listening to now to pass it along. You can also follow Copper State of Mind in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast app. We publish new episodes every other Friday. Copper State of Mind is brought to you by HMA Public Relations, the oldest continuously operating PR firm in Arizona. The show is recorded and produced by the team at Speed of Story, a B2B communications firm in Phoenix, and distributed by PHX.fm, the leading independent B2B podcast network in Arizona. For all of us here at Speed of Story and PHX.fm, I’m Adrian McIntyre. Thanks for listening and for sharing the show with others if you choose to do so. We hope you’ll join us again for another episode of Copper State of Mind.